Friends in UK…
Parliament just had an Emergency Debate on Hong Kong. Things like this rarely happen. This is a big deal.
Hong Kong, once a safe city, is being destroyed by the dark and insidious Communist Party of China. China has an agreement with the UK to preserve Hong Kong’s way of life for 50 years. The emergency debate was because China basically told the UK it has no right in looking into what is currently happening in HK. This is breaking an international treaty.
Please, don’t believe any of the bull-shit that tells you that the democracy protesters in Hong Kong are violent and the police are being restrained. Even the BBC does not portray true events in HK.
They are not rioters, they are not looting, they are not destroying anything, they are only standing up bravely for what they believe in and the once respected HK Police Force is increasing its violence daily on unarmed people and students, who don’t fight back. The HK Police Force is now like a wild animal released onto the peaceful people of HK. They are trying to silence the message of democracy with batons, violence and intimidation.
Living in the UK, there’s nothing you can physically do… other than KNOW.
KNOW that Hong Kong people are bravely standing up for the values that define you as British person. The values our parents and grandparents died for in WW2.
There are many people in Hong Kong that do support democracy but think that the fight is too big against the CCP and they can never win. Therefore they think that they should not stand up for these values no matter how noble as the fight is hopeless.
But as a British person, we know that in the darkest days of WW2, when all of Europe was lost and Britain was staring into the abyss of defeat, the only thing Britain had left was hope. Hope that good would triumph over evil and as British people we will never give in… even if we lose, at least we lose being right and trying to do good, rather than yielding and living a life with a black heart.
Hong Kong people are now fighting that same fight, they have no power, no plan, no leader…. only hope. They are the epitome of the Dunkirk Spirit. They put their bodies in front of batons and do not fight back in the hope that one day they can live in freedom and without fear from the government or police.
This fight is not far removed from you. Whenever and where ever dark forces overcome the values of democracy they take one step closer to your doorstep.
I know immigration is a big issue in UK at the moment… but these people are not your enemy. Ultimately, whether right or wrong, immigrants want to be part of your system, to live like you do, eat like you do, play like you do. They want to come to UK because they desire its values and way of life. This is not so for the CCP, it actively wants to destroy the system you live in and HK is a frontline of that fight.
If the people of Hong Kong are defeated and beaten into subjugation, it will not bode well for the entire World.
So people in UK, please KNOW, please SHARE the information on HK.
It is a great comfort for everyone here on the front lines of a global attack on democracy by the Communist Party of China.
This is not a fight any of us can lose!
原刊作者 Facebook，題為編者所加
分類：佔領
Reblogged this on NewsHongKong.
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I am born, raised and educated in the UK. My heritage and ancestory is from Hong Kong. What I can say about occupy central and it’s supporters are that I admire their spirit and I understand what they are trying to do. However, I do not whole heartedly agree with what you have posted above nor do I feel that the protests are 100% peaceful and that they are all good people. I do believe in HK police and that they are only trying to keep order. 3 months of protests is 3 months too long. What support you had from me had long since disappeared. I hereby ask you guys to yes, carry on protesting but don’t get carried away. Do things peacefully and WITHIN the law!
I true the people of Hong Kong whether they are for or against these protests to find an adequate solution without carnage and chaos on the street.
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皇法也是法，皇法要遵守嗎？集會在九七前只須事前知會警方，毋須批淮，拑制基本人權的法律要遵守嗎？不義的法律要遵守嗎？
在電視片段見到有很多警察用警棍瘋狂朴示威者頭部，警察公共關係科總警司許鎮德說：「警方使用棍唔係用嚟扑頭。」以警棍朴頭是違反警棍使用指引的，警察身為維護法紀者有守法嗎？為範者卻違法，何以服人！
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claiming to be born in the UK how would you compare the peacefulness/goodness of the comparing Umbrella Movement with demonstrators and hooligans in your country? if you cannot tolerate 3 months of peaceful protest how can you put up with living in the UK?
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Of course when comparing the actions of the occupy central protesters against the hooligans and idiots that plague our streets before, during and after football games then yes, the occupy central guys are very good.
So let’s compare the UK police force against the hk police. I believe that the actions of HK police have been exemplary in comparison to the UK ones. You are very lucky to have such tolerant policing. If any of you guys decide to hold illegal gathers in central London or in any major UK city and then decide to charge into parliament then you will be met with considerable police action. Forget the watered down pepper sprays and batons. We I’ll be sending out armoured cars and the mounted police to deal with you trouble makers. Forget 3 months protesting you’ll be lucky to be still standing after 3hrs.
Therefore I sincerely hope that you guys will stop demonising the HK police. They are just trying too their jobs.
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Sorry in my previous comment I completely forgot to reply back to your questions regarding how I can live in the UK if I can’t stand 3 months of peaceful protest.
I do believe that in large parts your protests have been peaceful but I am sure that you cannot deny that within the protest group there are elements of thuggish behaviour. I am sure that you too would have see first hand the actions of some of your people, the taunts towards the police and the abuse that you dish out to anyone that do not abide by what you believe in.
I live in the UK because although the protests here are bordering on riots and chaos, I firmly believe in the rule of law and the ability of our police force to handle, stamp out and bring to justice all who breaks the law. I too have faith in the HK police to eventually bring to justice the trouble makers in HK. I am only sudden that they have been weak in handling the troubles and that they should have dispersed the protests a hell of a lot earlier
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‘There are many people in Hong Kong that do support democracy but think that the fight is too big against the CCP and they can never win’
There are also many people like myself who do NOT support what you are doing. HK will be nothing if big brother didn’t help out during the collapse of the Asian tiger economies pre-2000, or when SARs hit and crippled the economy, or when the recent recession hit following the collapse of the sub-prime loans in America and the western countries. In fact HK only got rich in recent history thanks to it being a link to the Chinese market where westerner can come in and trade.
Your desire to push for universal sufferage is admirable but what you are doing is destroying Hong Kong and making the livelihood of the average citizen harder in the long term. Time that you people just shut the fuck up.
You claim that china is eroding your freedom but let me ask you this. Did you have more freedom than china when the British ruled the place? Did you have free elections? I think not! Even the top jobs like head of police, intelligence, commerce and the judiciary system was given to the white man. Did HK people hold any or these positions? No. Maybe a few deputy jobs but nothing substantial of note.
You currently live in a free society where you have freedom of speech and movement. You even have more freedom than anywhere else in china so you should count your lucky stars.
As a man from UK where we have open elections once every four years. Let me tell you things. Democracy is a good thing but it can be just as corrupt as any other system out there. At the end of the day it is man and not the system that brings corruption.
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中共強大，你們鬥不過它，你跟中共鬥，只會令它去整治你們，香港人就沒有好日子過，這就是你這種人的威嚇技倆！
香港的自由和法治自九七後已日漸褪色，不起訴英文虎報虛報銷量，人大推翻終審庭裁決，頂級富豪不可以對中共的指鹿為馬普選無立場，不可以保持緘默，這些都是例子，民主就是要令香港不會日漸變成大陸，令香港政府不會成為中共的傀儡。
民主不是可以解決社會所有問題，但可以制衡政府的專權，陳水扁貪污要坐牢，溫家寶家族巨額財富來源受質疑，溫家寶家人只是由律師發了個六點全無佐證的聲明就了事，而大陸就封鎖了這個消息，這就是民主跟專權的分野。
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not aware of any friends from UK who would have skipped the article “the" from a clause like “As a man from UK" – they are simply too proud of their own language to deviate from the proper name of their own country, not to mention those numerous grammatical oversight & sub-standard usage in this essay.
then it is beyond anyone’s wildest imagination to read a good British mocking democracy this way.
one’s humble opinion on the worth of the above reply is RMB 5 cents as no one would afford 5 pence
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It’s certainly worth something to you since you took the time to respond to my comment. It is also pleasing to see that you have decided to comment on my grammar and not even attempting to stay on topic. That to me speak volumes and confirm my views that some occupied central supporters only see what they want to see and do not truly understand that they are always two sides to every coin.
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你只是論事不及人，才在論人，文章作者是個怎樣的人，跟文章立論的對錯有何相關？
你不是在就事論事！
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你只是論事不及人，才在論人，文章作者是個怎樣的人，跟文章立論的對錯有何相關？
你不是在就事論事！
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If THE UK really cared about democracy in HK then they would have put in place a democratically elected HK Governor from the people of HK right after the Joint Declaration in 1984 instead of that half-hearted indirectly elected Legco. Heck, they would have done so long before that. Then, the debate back then would have been the “Through Train" of a HK Chief Executive elected through one-person-one-vote and not the ill-fated Patten 1995 Legco. That’s why it is so infuriating to hear Patten talk about democracy in HK as he symbolises nothing but THE UK’s reluctance to give HK democracy.
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Well said Joe. Your comment regarding Patten is right on the money.
I would like to add that Patten became HK governor only after he lost his constituency in the general election. He was effectively jobless and was assigned to HK soon after. HK accepted a man that was not elected by HK people and a man that also wasn’t elected by his constituence in the UK. How is that for democracy. Patten can therefore keep his mouth shut about the right to vote in HK
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又是論人不論事的「愛國」幫論調！
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你這番話不是胡言亂語嗎？中共不是從來都反對英國給香港人民主嗎？
英國不給香港人民主，中國大陸和港澳無民主就是天經地義？不要忘記殖民地是外國人統治，無民主是正常，你不如說日本侵華時為甚麼中國人無民主！
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你這番話不是胡言亂語嗎？中共不是從來都反對英國給香港人民主嗎？
英國不給香港人民主，中國大陸和港澳無民主就是天經地義？不要忘記殖民地是外國人統治，無民主是正常，你不如說日本侵華時為甚麼中國人無民主！
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Just to make the point that UK should shut up when it comes to democracy in HK. Never said HK does not deserve democracy. Also never said anything about China wanting or not wanting democracy in HK.
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英國不能給香港民主是因為中共的反對，九七後中共對香港的政治、法律都推倒重來就是明證。
明明是中共不肯給香港民主，你卻從來不會說出來，你亦從來都不會說中共的不是，你是中共的奴才不是很清楚嗎？
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The “people in UK" should know that Benny Tai vowed to conduct a poll between the ATD proposal and the government proposal BEFORE initiating OC, and only doing so if more people voted for the ATD proposal. They should in turn tell the people in HK that there’s on such thing as Civil Nomination in UK. They should indeed tell the people in HK that UK introduced Functional Constituency to HK Legco elections.
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戴耀廷代表了香港人嗎？香港人的爭取民主行動一定要跟他所說的？他不可以改變他原先的主張嗎？殖民地時代曾經有委任、功能組別、地區直選，香港是不是要永遠保留所有這些制度？以前一夫多妻、盲婚啞嫁是不是都要保留？你的論點說得通嗎？
你理屈詞窮，就只能糾纒於這些支節小事上，大是大非、原則你就避而不談！
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Mr訪客, you words seem familiar…
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你無言以對，只能顧左右而言他，你在討論爭取香港民主，而中共不肯給香港民主這一點你沒說出來，你是甚麼立場，路人皆見！
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Typo: your*
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To UK Guy:
In a recent speech of Lord Justice Hoffmann, a retired judge from the House of Lords and now a non-permanent judge of CFA in HK, he said,
“In any civilised society, there is room for people making political points by civil disobedience.”
I don’t know how much information you got regarding the violence used by the HK police, but I’m quite sure you don’t know that the police even uses violence against those voluntary medical team members. (If you know that, you won’t make such irresponsible comments regarding the acts of HK police force, would you?)
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The “Statement of the Hong Kong Bar Association on the Rule of Law and Civil Disobedience" also quoted Lord Justice Hoffmann, but in a more complete manner, as he clearly qualified his statement, which was left out by Mr HK Permanent Resident:
“My Lords, civil disobedience on conscientious grounds has a long and honourable history in this country. People who break the law to affirm their belief in the injustice of a law or government action are sometimes vindicated by history… It is the mark of a civilised community that it can accommodate protests and demonstrations of this kind. But there are conventions which are generally accepted by the law-breakers on one side and the law-enforcers on the other. The protesters behave with a sense of proportion and do not cause excessive damage or inconvenience. And they vouch the sincerity of their beliefs by accepting the penalties imposed by the law. The police and prosecutors, on the other hand, behave with restraint and the magistrates impose sentences which take the conscientious motives of the protesters into account.”
It is clear that both sides failed.
The HKBA also clearly states that, “even on a sympathetic view of civil disobedience (such as Lord Hoffmann’s), it is essential for participants to respect the rights and freedoms of other people who do not necessarily agree with their views and not to cause excessive damage or inconvenience. They should also be ready to accept the criminal consequences of their conduct."
If you accept Lord Justice Hoffmann and HKBA’s views, our occupiers / protesters are hardly practicing Civil Disobedience as the inconvenience caused is clearly excessive.
When their high profile leaders Benny Tai, together with Chan Kin Man and Reverend Chu, were only ready to admit to the lesser charge of “TAKING PART in an unauthorised assembly" instead of “organising" and “inciting people to participate," the movement has lost much credibility as Civil Disobedience. Taking part? After initiating the idea, setting up website, making videos to convince people, conducting workshops, polls, going on radio, TV, and other forms of media, organising numerous activities and talks, shouting out “go drink" (去飲) to initiate Occupy Central, and still only “taking part"?
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在九七之前，集會只須事前知會警方，毋須批准，九七後由中共操控的臨立場修改有關法例，變為苛法，所以戴耀廷等人實無犯法。
古代有皇法，皇法是法治嗎？沒民主的社會的法律會有不義之法，「法治」是「法律之治」（rule of law），中共的所謂法治卻是「以法治人」（rule by law），現時香港的公安條例正是「以法治人」的法律。
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Benny Tai is an Associate Professor of Law at HKU. He knew very well what laws he was breaking and the consequences. That’s why you hardly see him at the forefront of any of the confrontations. Unfortunately for those who followed him out, they don’t.
Let’s say we buy your twisted logic, did the students, occupiers, protesters, BT, etc, bothered to NOTIFY the police of their, by now, 69-day “authorised assembly"? The purpose of the notification was to allow the police to prepare in case of emergency while roads or public places are blocked. I don’t recall any 69-day long closure of roads during our colonial rule for public assembly. Do you? The Rule of Law is build on the spirit of just laws. And when you defy the spirit of the pre-handover assembly laws – notify police to allow precautions be taken – you are in a way challenging the Rule OF Law, not just the Rule BY Law.
I am no law scholar, but in any case, I would think that: refusing to follow the order of the police, ramming police defence lines, vandalism of public property (road blocks, rubbish bins, metal railings, etc), blockage of public passage, were all chargeable offences BEFORE the handover.
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不要訴諸權威，集會自由就是不須批准，知會警方就要他們作安排以配合市民集會，甚麼都要聽從警方，那是警權過大，殖民地政府是公義的政府嗎？所做的都是對嗎？當年「反英抗暴」，你們愛的中華人民共和國，不是說港英殘暴嗎？
政府是作賊心虛，既然「佔領」是犯法，為甚麼不立刻拘捕，要個多月後，才要借助外界民事訴訟來行動，那政府也是不守法了，以你們的邏輯，就是政府都是所謂破壞法治了。
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To HK permanent resident. I have seen both sides of the argument and I have witnessed both the police and the HK protesters breaking the law. I am not saying that all police officers are angels because as we all know there are always a bad egg in every basket. But I would like to give the benefit of the doubt to the police. They work in highly pressurised environments trying to keep order and ensure every protestor is safe, yet they are repeatedly verbally abused by the people that they are trying to protect.
The bottom line is that I feel that we should show more respect towards the police. These guys are just trying to do their jobs and try and remain impartial in the midst of the chaos. The day we lose faith in our officers is the day that society crumbles and we certainly do not want that regardless of which side of the protest that you stand on.
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在佔領運動發生之前，警方不是曾公開說過警員被人以粗言辱罵也無可奈何嗎？怎麼如今卻要以毒打洩憤？只因為現在要面對的是政治敵人，是他們視為「反政府」的人。
在電視片段所見，有很多警察以警棍瘋狂扑示威者頭部，以警棍扑頭是會致命的，那是在殺人！是違反警棍使用指引，警察公共關係科總警司許鎮德曾說：「警方使用棍唔係用嚟扑頭。」難道你認為警察被人辱罵就可以失控殺人？警察的專業訓練、職業操守何在？
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Hold on a second here. You are going on about police violence and the use of batons against the protesters. Are you saying that the protesters did not bring it onto themselves by taunting the police, poking the police with their umbrellas, trying to storm government buildings? What do they expect the police to do? Stand there and let the protesters do whatever they like? Let them disrupt businesses and livelihoods of the average person? Your argument is ridiculous I don’t know any police force around the world that would just stand there and not do anything about it. Like I said in one of my previous posts, you guys should be happy that you have such thick skinned police officers. Protest and act like you have done in any other country/state around the world then you would have your been head kicked in.
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辱罵警察，警察就要用警棍瘋狂致命地扑人的頭，我的親友被人辱罵，我幫他報警，警方對我說他們警察被人辱罵，也無可奈何，不能做甚麼，為甚麼現在的警察卻會失控，扑人頭部像要置人於死地。
電視畫面所見，警察瘋狂扑頭比比皆是，以雨傘打警察者少之又少，雨傘只是用來擋胡椒噴霧、警棍，你不要歪曲事實，影像說明了一切！
警棍是不可以扑頭的，只能打下身，你知道嗎？在胡椒噴霧、警棍等武力下，示威者無能力主動打警察，警察要拘捕人有何難？很多時佔領區只有二、三百人在，而警察最少可出動二、三千人，以十對一，要拘捕、清場易如反掌，只因人大831決定是完全蠻橫無理，政府作賊心虛，才要個多月後借助外間訴訟來清場。
佔領損害了其他人的利益，交通從業員罷工更損害全港市民的利益，因為罷工影響的不單只是佔領區的市民，資方不肯向罷工工人讓步，工人就要繼續羆工，政府不肯向爭取普選的人讓步，佔領就要繼續，你所擁護的中共政權在未取得政權時，不是鼓吹工人罷工去爭取權利嗎？怎麼現在又要鎮壓爭取政治權利的市民？兩套完全相反的標準，這就是你們的強盜邏輯、賊匪道理！
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Why did the police take on the protesters? Maybe it’s because the law was broken and that the occupation was illegal! Maybe the police had given sufficient warning to the protesters to vacate the area but the warnings were not adhered to… If you guys abide by the laws and listened to the authorities then you won’t have got a face full of baton huh? Again I would like to reiterate my support to the police.
Today I heard that the little boy Joshua Wong decided to end his hunger strike on the advise of his doctor. This is completely laughable..everyone knows that hunger strikes are bad for your health. He didn’t need a doctor to tell him that! He is behaving like a little toddler, he didn’t get his own way so decided to go on a hunger strike. When the going got too tough for him he looked for a way out of the mess he put himself in. So he used a doctors advise to get him out of a sticky situation. The whole episode is just so funny. I cried with laughter after I read the reports. Joshua Wong and all these kids should go back to school, get a good education and gain some life experience. You can’t just throw your toys out of the pram and force people and policies to be changed and behaving like fools.
This blog is pretty boring and to be honest, no matter what I say on here you guys won’t listen anyway. You occupied people are too blinded by your agenda and no amount of reasoning can sway you in your decision making. So this will be the last time I come on here to read your rubbish.
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是你沒理會他人的論據，不是我們，你不要顛倒黑白，你有回應到以警棍扑頭是會置人於死地，是違反使用守則嗎？他們犯法，你們就去拘捕他們，而不是扑頭毒打，第一天就可以拘捕，為甚麼不做？只因政府作賊心虛，才要個多月後借助外間民事訴訟來清場。
我說罷工更損害他人利益，你就不敢再說損害他人利益這個理由，只能說犯法，皇法也是法，不義之法也是法，九七前集會只須知會警方，毋須批准，非法集會這法例是「以法治人」rule by law之法，不是「法律之治」rule of law之法，是不公義的法律！
你理屈詞窮，就顧左右而言他，說黃之鋒絕食，根本就跟正在討論的警察清場行動無關，最後只能靠謾罵，一走了之。
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Oh dear Lord… Still having a go I see? Go back to sleeping on the streets like some tramp. You are better at doing that kinda stuff with your little friends. When I walk pass I might even be generous and throw a dollar your way…. Or maybe not ;P
Good luck with your protest little child 😀
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P. S you have been given advance notice to clear the protest site by Thursday morning. Enough time to move your belongings, vacate the area and don’t get in the way of the police enforcing the law. Don’t expect sympathy from people if you decide to tough it out and subsequently get battered by the enforcement agencies.
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